Actually vgs are not really that much harder. They just need more time to get cleared. How is it harder to watch npcs explode longer? If they would have increased npc damage or reduced our tanks, but keep the maximum possible isk the same (minus those 10%), than I could agree that its harder. But that is not what they changed, they just make us now shoot longer on rats.

Still you are right, adapt or die is the call and people already starting to adapt. Assaults are the new vgs. And vanguards are the new scouts.

Ya, Assaults WERE going to be the new vanguards with what we saw on Sisi and read in the patch notes.
Then CCP decided they actually love to lie to their gaming population, and ****** us all in our asses.

really, I think blitz fleets will still be possible for the Vanguard sites. They may never be as profitable again.

First of all, I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be (haven't tried Incursions post-nerf yet). It wouldn't be the first time people have cried 'X is dead' only for X to reemerge alive and well 1-2 months afterward.

However, if once people really start trying adapt and theory-craft new setups the situation proves to really be as bad as people think, then yes, Incursions are dead.

Until Incursions are removed from High Sec or lose CONCORD protection they can never be nerfed enough, and yes lvl 4s should be next.

Vanguard blitz fleets used to do OTAs and NMCs in 3-4 minutes, that has been nerfed to 5-6 minutes for NMCs and 7-8 minutes for OTAs.

It's not "blitzing" anymore but they have pretty much made it so ONLY shiny ships with high dps will be able to make decent money.

Did you actually read my post?

I don't think you did. I was suggesting nullsec incursions to get nerfed as well. Do you not understand why? I will tell you why: Because we, and by we, I mean nullbears, already know where all possible nullsec incursions can spawn, and have jump bridge networks around them. Whenever they spawn in friendly space, we all go jew it up, we have tons of scouts, and the area is locked down. In hisec there is some risk of suicide ganking. During a nullsec incursion there is zero risk, and I am not given to exaggeration.

Nullsec incursions, by and large, rarely get run, because they often spawn in space where the local sov holders don't know what to do with them (looking at you, SMA), and therefore usually ran their courses and despawned at 0%. Lowsec incursions were where we were making bank. Not nullsec.

Lowsec incursions are the riskiest, as they can not be locked down and hellcamped like nullsec incursions, and there is no Concord like in hisec. A small ahac gang can come in and mess your day up if (when) you get lazy.

Whining? Nah. No whining. Just sad, because this was a fun social thing for ~everyone~ that isn't going to happen anymore unless CCP backs off a little on the nerfbat.

Leads back to the "risk free isk" argument that so many people are using.

They are boring? People did not notice? People did not want that ISK anyway? People did not want to make an alt for them? People did not like the nomadic lifestyle? People have better things to do? People needed to defend their tech moon instead? People have no bots to run them? People preferred isk from explorations? People preferred farming sanctums with their titan? People preferred more ISK from Wormholes? Market games are way more profitable than Incursions ever were and so people preferred them? People preferred to afk or bot mine on 10 Accounts? People could make more isk in missions than in bad vg fleets?

There are many good reasons not to run incursions even when they are top money.
Just pick one of many reasons, or chose a reason not listed here.

these hisec bears have been spoiled by CCP for too long.

they're mad because they're in their right place.

if you claim that you're more about community and interactive between players, a bit reduce in isk wouldn't bother you

I dont see any nullsec corps complaining.

How can you loose ships now that they are easier, though much longer, than they were before?

Apparently not the same source your info is coming from. I've been hearing that they are just longer from a VG perspective. Don't know anyone who runs assaults, but to that point I suppose I am at folly for using hearsay instead of going out and finding the results directly.

But is this really a big deal? As long as the encounters are overall still easy. Twice close to zero risk from npcs is still close to zero risk. And it is not like the site actually got twice as hard, they just got harder compared to mind numbing easy. Which is important for the risk vs reward equation, but not so much for the feel of the sites.

The problem is there is no isk/hour increase as you go up the different size sites. So there is no incentive to do the bigger sites... and this is why people have just farmed Vanguards, because they had no reason to do bigger riskier sites for less isk.

If they made the bigger sites pay out more per hour then more people would want to form up Assaults and HQ's

60-70m/hr seem a reasonable payout for HS VG

We will be monitoring the feedback and looking at the stats over the next couple of months, comparing them to the stats we had pre-escalation, to see how things look once everyone has settled into the new changes.